Comments on: The burden of proof: What does education research really tell us? http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/2009/03/10/the-burden-of-proof-what-does-education-research-really-tell-us/ learning, networks, knowledge, technology, community Sat, 4 Feb 2012 22:56:23 -0500 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.4 By: Attending lectures is ‘old school’ – what else is? « The Weblog of (a) David Jones http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/2009/03/10/the-burden-of-proof-what-does-education-research-really-tell-us/comment-page-1/#comment-15807 Attending lectures is ‘old school’ – what else is? « The Weblog of (a) David Jones Tue, 02 Jun 2009 03:38:42 +0000 http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/?p=3845#comment-15807 [...] an aside, George Siemens makes the point that lectures, even recorded, ones, aren’t necessarily passive. However, there are interesting and beneficial changes to the lecture approach that can be [...] [...] an aside, George Siemens makes the point that lectures, even recorded, ones, aren’t necessarily passive. However, there are interesting and beneficial changes to the lecture approach that can be [...]

]]> By: Stephanie Chasteen http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/2009/03/10/the-burden-of-proof-what-does-education-research-really-tell-us/comment-page-1/#comment-8624 Stephanie Chasteen Sat, 14 Mar 2009 04:42:42 +0000 http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/?p=3845#comment-8624 Classroom response systems, or "clickers" are another good way to check in to see if students are with you and, more importantly, to get students to engage in what you've just told them (or are about to tell them) so it doesn't just breeze over their heads if they're getting lost. Derek Bruff has a great blog devoted to them: http://derekbruff.com/teachingwithcrs/. Classroom response systems, or “clickers” are another good way to check in to see if students are with you and, more importantly, to get students to engage in what you’ve just told them (or are about to tell them) so it doesn’t just breeze over their heads if they’re getting lost. Derek Bruff has a great blog devoted to them: http://derekbruff.com/teachingwithcrs/.

]]> By: Ken Allan http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/2009/03/10/the-burden-of-proof-what-does-education-research-really-tell-us/comment-page-1/#comment-8525 Ken Allan Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:56:10 +0000 http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/?p=3845#comment-8525 <b>Kia ora George!</b> How refreshing to read you saying it's a mistake to conclude that lectures are passive. This view, that the lecture is as dead as the page in a book has been around for a while and I've never agreed with it. I don't think the page in the book is dead either. One reason I believe this is because of the existence a generation of educated people that I grew up with. If one cannot learn from lectures, lessons from the blackboard, reading from books then I haven't learnt much in the past 60 years and neither have my contemporaries. <a href="http://newmiddle-earth.blogspot.com/2008/10/learning-tactics-and-their-support.html" rel="nofollow">Learning tactics and their support</a> is where it's at as far as I'm concerned. Get engagement (by whatever means works) and you have a learner. Catchya later from Middle-earth Kia ora George!

How refreshing to read you saying it’s a mistake to conclude that lectures are passive. This view, that the lecture is as dead as the page in a book has been around for a while and I’ve never agreed with it. I don’t think the page in the book is dead either.

One reason I believe this is because of the existence a generation of educated people that I grew up with. If one cannot learn from lectures, lessons from the blackboard, reading from books then I haven’t learnt much in the past 60 years and neither have my contemporaries.

Learning tactics and their support is where it’s at as far as I’m concerned. Get engagement (by whatever means works) and you have a learner.

Catchya later
from Middle-earth

]]> By: Deirdre http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/2009/03/10/the-burden-of-proof-what-does-education-research-really-tell-us/comment-page-1/#comment-8466 Deirdre Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:13:49 +0000 http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/?p=3845#comment-8466 I think Stephanie's comment about "the things we enjoy don’t necessarily correlate with the things that help us learn" is one I've been thinking about a lot lately as I contemplate the differences between teaching and learning. Many of our student evaluations of faculty focus on affective dimensions of presenting or the teachers knowledge base and I wonder how that influences the strategies faculty chose. I think Stephanie’s comment about “the things we enjoy don’t necessarily correlate with the things that help us learn” is one I’ve been thinking about a lot lately as I contemplate the differences between teaching and learning. Many of our student evaluations of faculty focus on affective dimensions of presenting or the teachers knowledge base and I wonder how that influences the strategies faculty chose.

]]> By: Brad Ovenell-Carter http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/2009/03/10/the-burden-of-proof-what-does-education-research-really-tell-us/comment-page-1/#comment-8465 Brad Ovenell-Carter Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:58:40 +0000 http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/?p=3845#comment-8465 I agree: we'd be wrong to throw out lectures altogether. We can have bad lecturers, to be sure, but we can also have bad collaborative learning. The opposite is true, too. Rather than looking at the medium--lecture, video, collaboration, etc--we ought to look at the quality of the exchange of ideas, something I'm exploring in my Master's thesis: http://www.ovenell-carter.com/GLSThesis/ I agree: we’d be wrong to throw out lectures altogether. We can have bad lecturers, to be sure, but we can also have bad collaborative learning. The opposite is true, too. Rather than looking at the medium–lecture, video, collaboration, etc–we ought to look at the quality of the exchange of ideas, something I’m exploring in my Master’s thesis: http://www.ovenell-carter.com/GLSThesis/

]]> By: Deirdre http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/2009/03/10/the-burden-of-proof-what-does-education-research-really-tell-us/comment-page-1/#comment-8457 Deirdre Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:46:56 +0000 http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/?p=3845#comment-8457 Medical Education has been looking at this question quite seriously for the last 10 years. We use large lecture theaters extensively in the undergraduate years and will continue to do so. So we have been trying to find methods of focusing attention at the beginning, middle and end of lectures by actively engaging students in quick activities and pattern making. See http://medicaleducation.wetpaint.com/page/Active+Engagement for examples. I'm always looking for new ideas. Medical Education has been looking at this question quite seriously for the last 10 years. We use large lecture theaters extensively in the undergraduate years and will continue to do so. So we have been trying to find methods of focusing attention at the beginning, middle and end of lectures by actively engaging students in quick activities and pattern making. See http://medicaleducation.wetpaint.com/page/Active+Engagement for examples.
I’m always looking for new ideas.

]]> By: Excommunicated, passivating lecturing? « Joanna’s techno-pedagogical blog http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/2009/03/10/the-burden-of-proof-what-does-education-research-really-tell-us/comment-page-1/#comment-8432 Excommunicated, passivating lecturing? « Joanna’s techno-pedagogical blog Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:10:39 +0000 http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/?p=3845#comment-8432 [...] {March 11, 2009}   Excommunicated, passivating lecturing? I was really delighted to read George Siemens’ blog and his thoughts about lecturing and find out that there is also someone else who likes to listen [...] [...] {March 11, 2009}   Excommunicated, passivating lecturing? I was really delighted to read George Siemens’ blog and his thoughts about lecturing and find out that there is also someone else who likes to listen [...]

]]> By: Stephanie Chasteen http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/2009/03/10/the-burden-of-proof-what-does-education-research-really-tell-us/comment-page-1/#comment-8419 Stephanie Chasteen Wed, 11 Mar 2009 03:16:00 +0000 http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/?p=3845#comment-8419 Thanks for the link to my post! I would argue, myself, that the amount that the student is engaged in a lecture that does not require active participation (such as answering questions, sketching, or discussing with neighbors) is generally minimal. An advanced or expert learner (as are most professors or professionals) can engage him or herself, to some degree, by having internal dialogues about the lecture. But those learners are rare, and certainly our typical students are generally not well represented among the people able to engage in "minds on" learning during an entire 50 minute lecture. The key, as you say, is variety. There is a time for all things, including telling and doing. One side note -- lots of research shows that the things we "enjoy" don't necessarily correlate with the things that help us learn, so enjoyment is, while not an unimportant factor, not the only thing to consider! Thanks for the link to my post! I would argue, myself, that the amount that the student is engaged in a lecture that does not require active participation (such as answering questions, sketching, or discussing with neighbors) is generally minimal. An advanced or expert learner (as are most professors or professionals) can engage him or herself, to some degree, by having internal dialogues about the lecture. But those learners are rare, and certainly our typical students are generally not well represented among the people able to engage in “minds on” learning during an entire 50 minute lecture. The key, as you say, is variety. There is a time for all things, including telling and doing.

One side note — lots of research shows that the things we “enjoy” don’t necessarily correlate with the things that help us learn, so enjoyment is, while not an unimportant factor, not the only thing to consider!

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