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	<title>Comments on: A World without Courses</title>
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	<link>http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/2008/03/06/a-world-without-courses/</link>
	<description>learning, networks, knowledge, technology, community</description>
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		<title>By: Ruminate &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Speaking of Movie Trailers&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/2008/03/06/a-world-without-courses/comment-page-1/#comment-23068</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruminate &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Speaking of Movie Trailers&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:24:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dnorman.tlc.ucalgary.ca/elearnspace/?p=3271#comment-23068</guid>
		<description>[...] before I saw Alec’s example, I was never able to read George Siemens’ phrase “A World Without Courses” without hearing it in one of those great Movie Trailer Voices, like Hal Douglas or the late, great [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] before I saw Alec’s example, I was never able to read George Siemens’ phrase “A World Without Courses” without hearing it in one of those great Movie Trailer Voices, like Hal Douglas or the late, great [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fabi</title>
		<link>http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/2008/03/06/a-world-without-courses/comment-page-1/#comment-7102</link>
		<dc:creator>Fabi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dnorman.tlc.ucalgary.ca/elearnspace/?p=3271#comment-7102</guid>
		<description>FYI- It seems like something&#039;s wrong with the player. I couldn&#039;t view the presentation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI- It seems like something&#8217;s wrong with the player. I couldn&#8217;t view the presentation.</p>
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		<title>By: Fabi</title>
		<link>http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/2008/03/06/a-world-without-courses/comment-page-1/#comment-7100</link>
		<dc:creator>Fabi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dnorman.tlc.ucalgary.ca/elearnspace/?p=3271#comment-7100</guid>
		<description>Hi George, I&#039;m late for the party. First time I read your blog. The stuff you talk about here is precisely what I&#039;ve been thinking about for a while now. I&#039;m off to check out your World Without Courses presentation you mentioned in the post. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi George, I&#8217;m late for the party. First time I read your blog. The stuff you talk about here is precisely what I&#8217;ve been thinking about for a while now. I&#8217;m off to check out your World Without Courses presentation you mentioned in the post. <img src='http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Gina</title>
		<link>http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/2008/03/06/a-world-without-courses/comment-page-1/#comment-988</link>
		<dc:creator>Gina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 03:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dnorman.tlc.ucalgary.ca/elearnspace/?p=3271#comment-988</guid>
		<description>Hi,just wondering - who pays for this connectedness? Who pays for the hardware, software, bandwidth? Is it possible that the information to be taught can become polluted by the people paying the bills?

With no hard rules to establish an authoritative voice, is it possible that &quot;cult of personality&quot; could be the deciding factor on who the experts will be? Could the information they provide be biased, or could their position be bought and paid for? (The latest Wikipedia scandal is a good example of this).

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,just wondering &#8211; who pays for this connectedness? Who pays for the hardware, software, bandwidth? Is it possible that the information to be taught can become polluted by the people paying the bills?</p>
<p>With no hard rules to establish an authoritative voice, is it possible that &#8220;cult of personality&#8221; could be the deciding factor on who the experts will be? Could the information they provide be biased, or could their position be bought and paid for? (The latest Wikipedia scandal is a good example of this).</p>
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		<title>By: George Siemens</title>
		<link>http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/2008/03/06/a-world-without-courses/comment-page-1/#comment-987</link>
		<dc:creator>George Siemens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dnorman.tlc.ucalgary.ca/elearnspace/?p=3271#comment-987</guid>
		<description>Hi Lisa - your question is at the heart of the challenge of moving away from course models. As you state, in traditional courses, the educator plays a key selection role in determining what will be covered. When we learn in more distributed means, the clear start/end dates are challenged. And maybe that&#039;s the real issue - perhaps we need to stop seeing learning as having artificial end points as indicators of &quot;you&#039;ve learned enough&quot;. Keep in mind, however, that I have far more questions than answers on this topic. I&#039;m trying to play around with different ideas...and explore implications. So to those who have shared ideas/perspectives/concerns, thanks!
George
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Lisa &#8211; your question is at the heart of the challenge of moving away from course models. As you state, in traditional courses, the educator plays a key selection role in determining what will be covered. When we learn in more distributed means, the clear start/end dates are challenged. And maybe that&#8217;s the real issue &#8211; perhaps we need to stop seeing learning as having artificial end points as indicators of &#8220;you&#8217;ve learned enough&#8221;. Keep in mind, however, that I have far more questions than answers on this topic. I&#8217;m trying to play around with different ideas&#8230;and explore implications. So to those who have shared ideas/perspectives/concerns, thanks!<br />
George</p>
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		<title>By: George Siemens</title>
		<link>http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/2008/03/06/a-world-without-courses/comment-page-1/#comment-986</link>
		<dc:creator>George Siemens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dnorman.tlc.ucalgary.ca/elearnspace/?p=3271#comment-986</guid>
		<description>Hi Cable - thanks for your comment. Looking forward to meeting you in Spokane in a few weeks.

You raise an important idea about leaving courses as they are and adopting OERs, social learning approaches, etc. to extend the learner&#039;s experience. I would suggest, however, that at some point, this model will require changes to courses themselves...if learners get used to freedom and control over their learning content, it&#039;s possible the course model will no longer be able to sustain their interests.

George
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Cable &#8211; thanks for your comment. Looking forward to meeting you in Spokane in a few weeks.</p>
<p>You raise an important idea about leaving courses as they are and adopting OERs, social learning approaches, etc. to extend the learner&#8217;s experience. I would suggest, however, that at some point, this model will require changes to courses themselves&#8230;if learners get used to freedom and control over their learning content, it&#8217;s possible the course model will no longer be able to sustain their interests.</p>
<p>George</p>
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		<title>By: George Siemens</title>
		<link>http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/2008/03/06/a-world-without-courses/comment-page-1/#comment-985</link>
		<dc:creator>George Siemens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:57:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dnorman.tlc.ucalgary.ca/elearnspace/?p=3271#comment-985</guid>
		<description>Hi Roger - I appreciate the comment. Would love to hear more about your experience with the approach you&#039;ve taken...especially with regard to next steps.

George
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Roger &#8211; I appreciate the comment. Would love to hear more about your experience with the approach you&#8217;ve taken&#8230;especially with regard to next steps.</p>
<p>George</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: George Siemens</title>
		<link>http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/2008/03/06/a-world-without-courses/comment-page-1/#comment-984</link>
		<dc:creator>George Siemens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dnorman.tlc.ucalgary.ca/elearnspace/?p=3271#comment-984</guid>
		<description>Hi Deborah - thanks for sharing the program you&#039;re involved with. Sounds like a great approach. Could you suggest someone for me to talk to at Antioch about the genesis and success of your approach?

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Deborah &#8211; thanks for sharing the program you&#8217;re involved with. Sounds like a great approach. Could you suggest someone for me to talk to at Antioch about the genesis and success of your approach?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: George Siemens</title>
		<link>http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/2008/03/06/a-world-without-courses/comment-page-1/#comment-983</link>
		<dc:creator>George Siemens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dnorman.tlc.ucalgary.ca/elearnspace/?p=3271#comment-983</guid>
		<description>Hi Viplav - thanks for the link. I&#039;ll review your post...
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Viplav &#8211; thanks for the link. I&#8217;ll review your post&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: George Siemens</title>
		<link>http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/2008/03/06/a-world-without-courses/comment-page-1/#comment-982</link>
		<dc:creator>George Siemens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dnorman.tlc.ucalgary.ca/elearnspace/?p=3271#comment-982</guid>
		<description>Hey Mark - heh, tough questions.

1. Who are these experts? The best model I can think of is what I&#039;ve encountered with edublogs. The people who are in the field mentor/link/comment on the work of others who are joining. It is the sustained involvement in (and connections to) the community that fosters learning. But that&#039;s not that far off of traditional peer review, is it? Profs aren&#039;t paid to review journal articles. But to do so is an indication of prestige and a giving back to the network one belongs to.

2. Criticism of accreditation from holistic, and courses from atomistic - good observation. In the presentation, I put forward several distinct aspects (I&#039;m posting on this on my connectivism blog soon...so hopefully this will clarify things): content creation, content aggregation, and accreditation or determination of competence. Regardless of courses or non-courses, accreditation is holistic. While my criticism was directed at courses, my discussion of accreditation was derived from how learning might be evaluated in a non-course model. In that sense, I think the discussion is not of atomistic/holistic level.

3. Underlying epistemology - finding the information they need vs. finding learning they need. Again, good distinction:). Information assumes they need a missing piece, but they already have roots in the field. Learning needs are more broad in my eyes...and requires building a base of knowledge. Example: when I want a bit of a refresher on a learning theorist, I use Google Scholar to find a paper. But I know it exists in some capacity and I&#039;m just filling an information need. However, if I know nothing about a field, I need to form a base before any single piece of information will provide much value.

4. A new pecking order? I&#039;m afraid that will likely happen. With one slight shift from our current pecking order. Power laws and small worlds exist online, much like they do in regular society. In regular society, however, the feedback loop is closed due to position, wealth, etc. Online (in theory at least), a feedback loop is more accessible. I guess the issue here becomes one of human nature, control, and power. We don&#039;t shed our existing aspirations (vices?) when we move online. Those who crave attention/power/control will bring those attributes to how they desire to organize the virtual environment.

5. How would a connected university not be hierarchical? I would suggest, with much idealism, that a connected university would be more permeable in how it assists learners in forming learning networks outside of the academy. How it collaborates between depts in bringing different ideas together, and demonstrating how biology influences physics, etc. Greater cross-dept discourse...and so on. But that is non-hierarchical view of learning. Of greater interest for me is how the administration of the university could be set up to be more adaptive and flexible. I haven&#039;t thought on that enough to even begin to give you a coherent answer :).

6. Might a connectivist notion work in an existing model? Yes, I think it would. I wonder, however, how long we can adopt innovations in classrooms and universities before we are forced to make some significant systemic changes.

Thanks for your questions, Mark.

George
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Mark &#8211; heh, tough questions.</p>
<p>1. Who are these experts? The best model I can think of is what I&#8217;ve encountered with edublogs. The people who are in the field mentor/link/comment on the work of others who are joining. It is the sustained involvement in (and connections to) the community that fosters learning. But that&#8217;s not that far off of traditional peer review, is it? Profs aren&#8217;t paid to review journal articles. But to do so is an indication of prestige and a giving back to the network one belongs to.</p>
<p>2. Criticism of accreditation from holistic, and courses from atomistic &#8211; good observation. In the presentation, I put forward several distinct aspects (I&#8217;m posting on this on my connectivism blog soon&#8230;so hopefully this will clarify things): content creation, content aggregation, and accreditation or determination of competence. Regardless of courses or non-courses, accreditation is holistic. While my criticism was directed at courses, my discussion of accreditation was derived from how learning might be evaluated in a non-course model. In that sense, I think the discussion is not of atomistic/holistic level.</p>
<p>3. Underlying epistemology &#8211; finding the information they need vs. finding learning they need. Again, good distinction:). Information assumes they need a missing piece, but they already have roots in the field. Learning needs are more broad in my eyes&#8230;and requires building a base of knowledge. Example: when I want a bit of a refresher on a learning theorist, I use Google Scholar to find a paper. But I know it exists in some capacity and I&#8217;m just filling an information need. However, if I know nothing about a field, I need to form a base before any single piece of information will provide much value.</p>
<p>4. A new pecking order? I&#8217;m afraid that will likely happen. With one slight shift from our current pecking order. Power laws and small worlds exist online, much like they do in regular society. In regular society, however, the feedback loop is closed due to position, wealth, etc. Online (in theory at least), a feedback loop is more accessible. I guess the issue here becomes one of human nature, control, and power. We don&#8217;t shed our existing aspirations (vices?) when we move online. Those who crave attention/power/control will bring those attributes to how they desire to organize the virtual environment.</p>
<p>5. How would a connected university not be hierarchical? I would suggest, with much idealism, that a connected university would be more permeable in how it assists learners in forming learning networks outside of the academy. How it collaborates between depts in bringing different ideas together, and demonstrating how biology influences physics, etc. Greater cross-dept discourse&#8230;and so on. But that is non-hierarchical view of learning. Of greater interest for me is how the administration of the university could be set up to be more adaptive and flexible. I haven&#8217;t thought on that enough to even begin to give you a coherent answer <img src='http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
<p>6. Might a connectivist notion work in an existing model? Yes, I think it would. I wonder, however, how long we can adopt innovations in classrooms and universities before we are forced to make some significant systemic changes.</p>
<p>Thanks for your questions, Mark.</p>
<p>George</p>
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